[00:00:00] Christy: I'm your host, Christy Tong, bringing you insightful interviews with best selling authors and with leaders who are purposeful, passionate, and authentic. Gain compelling insights as they share the challenges and rewards of leading with authenticity and

[00:00:25] Marcela: impact.

[00:00:30] Christy: It's an honor for me to interview this guest. who has played a pivotal role in Disney Pixar's Oscar nominated film, Coco. The film is being lauded as Disney's finest work yet for its cultural authenticity, and the woman behind this distinction is Marcella Davison Aviles. In this interview, hear how her leadership shaped this magical and groundbreaking movie.

Um, it's a highly sensitive cultural and political climate in America and produced a historic success.

Marcella, welcome. I am so excited to have you as a guest today.

[00:01:10] Marcela: Well, thank you for the invitation. I was delighted to be here and to join you. Thanks a lot.

[00:01:16] Christy: Now, I recently saw the magical Disney Pixar film Coco about a young Mexican boy named Miguel pursuing his dream to become a musician, though music's been banned in his family due to some painful family history.

And I absolutely loved it. And now the Academy Awards are right around the corner and Coco is up for two nominations, Best Animated Film and Best Song, and you played a very pivotal role in the making of this film. So I'm excited to hear your story today. Thank you for taking time to join

[00:01:52] Marcela: us. No, I'm looking forward to our conversation.

[00:01:57] Christy: All right. Now Disney has shared stories giving us a window into different cultures for decades and critics are saying in that regard that this is the finest work yet. So tell us about the role that you played in telling the story of Coco.

[00:02:14] Marcela: Well, I was very fortunate to, uh, be invited to join the team early on.

Darla Anderson, the, uh, producer, uh, reached out to me, uh, about six years ago. And, um, I was, was, and I am still the lead consultant for the film, the lead cultural consultant, and my role was to, uh, work with the creative team, the production team, uh, as well as marketing. Uh, consumer products, uh, folks on the music side of the house, pretty much all aspects of the creation of the film and its aftermarket extension to ensure that the depiction of Mexico's culture and, uh, the celebration within the movie of, uh, the Mexican holiday known as, uh, Day of the Dead or Dia de los Muertos, uh, would be as culturally authentic.

And accurate, uh, as, as, as it could possibly be. Um, and so, uh, that was, that was my job was to work sort of hand in glove with my colleagues there to paint a portrait of Mexican culture that would be deeply felt and, um, and, and very, uh, simpatico, as they say, to, uh, to the notion of, of. Of depicting, uh, uh, the culture of Mexico.

Now

[00:03:44] Christy: the film's up for two Oscars. So clearly it's been successful from an artistic perspective. How has it done at the box

[00:03:50] Marcela: offices? Oh my goodness. We are so happy with the, with the financial results of the film. I think we're just south of, uh, a billion dollars in global box office. If I'm Last time I checked the box office, it was, uh, close to 800 million and we haven't opened in, uh, some key markets yet.

So we're, uh, keeping our fingers crossed that we'll hit that threshold. And I think some of the results have been very, very interesting. Well, certainly in Mexico, it was stupendous. It was Pixar. This movie in Mexico is the highest grossing film in the history of Mexican cinema. Ever period, whether it was a live action movie or animated movie, or a Mexican movie, or an American movie, it's the, it's the most successful financially in the history of Mexico and in China.

Uh, our box office is, uh, more robust there than it is in the United States. And in, you know, we, we did very well in the States. Mm-Hmm. . So we we're very happy about how, uh, the community in Asia has. Embrace the film. Wow.

[00:04:53] Christy: Incredible. Congratulations. Share from your own life story. Why did this project matter to you?

[00:05:02] Marcela: Well, this project, you know, it meant so much for me personally because, uh, you know, both my parents, uh, came from Mexico. My, my father's from, uh, the state of Sonora and my mother's from Jalisco from Guadalajara. And, um, You know, uh, my, my family has a deep roots in Mexico. Uh, I have relatives that live all over the country and, uh, it meant a lot because, uh, my parents have been gone now for many years and it just was a journey where it seemed like every day I was reconnecting with my family through my work.

Um, certainly, you know. diving even more deeply into my cultural heritage, uh, than I normally would, uh, be just because of the what the film was about. And, um, and then finally the, you know, As you mentioned earlier, part of the, the theme that the movie takes up is a little boy's dream to become a musician and he encounters a challenge because his family is dead set against it, uh, and they want him to pursue the family business.

Um, and I had a similar experience, you know, I wanted to pursue a career in, in, in the creative world, and, and my mother was. Not very happy with it with that choice and tried really hard to get me to do something that was stable and You know would bring in an income and and she was quite happy when I became a lawyer So there it's there were a lot of reasons for me to sort of pour my heart into this movie And I think that's what everybody did who, who worked on the film.

Um, it was a way for us to tell a story that connected us with our family, connected us with our culture, but also as, as fate would have it, um, when we all realized the timing for its release. Relative to what's happening, uh, in this country, uh, in the civic culture and politically, we knew that the movie was going to create an impact that would be a bigger than even we had imagined.

And we, we knew that we had to do our very best to create a story that would, uh, Mean as much to the rest of the world as it did to us

[00:07:32] Christy: now my podcast. It's about authenticity and Critics are saying the brilliance of this film is how authentically it captured Latino culture heritage And you shared with me how this film was a dangerous undertaking for the director Lee Unkrich.

Who's not Latino He's a white guy Why did he want to make this film?

[00:07:57] Marcela: I think that Lee wanted to make this movie because he fell in love with the core meaning of Dia de Muertos, which is that that tradition is a lovely holiday. It's a lovely tradition of Mexico and what it is about is creating. An environment and creating an opportunity for families to come together specifically to remember family members.

They have loved and lost. And so that whole idea of creating, um, an opportunity for families to come. To do what I call memory making, to do it around people that you loved and to do it in a way such as sharing stories, uh, breaking bread together, um, as a way to sort of reconnect. Uh, not only with people that you miss, but with one another.

And that's what Lee fell in love with. And so, uh, he wanted to, he wanted to take on, you know, that story and figure out a way to share it with the rest of the world. And Uh, but being the wonderfully sensitive guy that he is, he was concerned about whether or not he would be the right person to tell the story and in my conversations with him, um, especially as he described to me why he wanted to share this story and what caused him to decide to, to embark on this amazing journey of, of putting the film together.

What, what I said to him is Lee, you know. You're more Mexican than I am right now and sharing with me why you wanna do this film. Your, your, your heart is so in the right place. You're the right guy to do this. And, and he was, he really was. Hmm,

[00:09:52] Christy: that's beautiful. So it's truly incredible that Lee, someone who's not Latino, he directed this film and yet it's being highly acclaimed for its cultural authenticity.

And there's been lots of media about the cultural brilliance of Coco and all the articles I've read attributed to the fact that for the first time, Disney Pixar hired cultural consultants and that, that was you, you were the lead cultural consultant, and yet often your name isn't mentioned in the article.

So you have been a hidden figure, so to speak, who's had a tremendous leadership impact on this film. Do you want to say a little bit about your leadership in this film?

[00:10:40] Marcela: Well, I, I feel that, um, one of the reasons I'm very grateful to Pixar and to Lee and to Darla is because it did give me an opportunity to step into leadership, uh, to be, um, working side by side with Lee and with Darla, uh, behind the scenes as, um, someone they, they trusted to help them understand.

Mexico's culture to help them understand, um, the, uh, why people feel a certain way about, uh, our heritage. Um, you know, there was a, to be sure, a lot of what I did was, um, giving, uh, straightforward Insights on, uh, history on heritage around the tradition of Day of the Dead, but the other aspect of my work was also to provide insights on, um, the, the, the situation in the United States relative to what's happening in the Mexican American community, as well as the Mexican immigrant community, and why, um, uh, current events In our civic culture created sort of a sensitivity to what our team was doing with this movie, uh, the, the, well, you know, to be sure folks in Mexico were really watching us, but the, the US Latino community had us under a microscope and has us under a microscope and they feel very strongly, uh, that if someone, uh, purports to tell a story about their heritage, What's really happening is that they're telling a story about their identity and that if they're going to do that, they need to do it right.

[00:12:30] Christy: You just articulate that so beautifully about the connection between heritage and identity. That was really, really well said. Now share with us some of the favorite ways that your influence was able to shape the film itself.

[00:12:48] Marcela: Well, I, one of my favorite stories is, is how, um, the, the character of Abuela, uh, changed a little bit.

Um, she's the grandmother in the movie and she's, she's the, she's the character, she's very sort of fierce in a loving way. She's the person who's really, uh, enforces the rule, the no music, you know, rule in the family. And, um, there's a scene where she discovers that, uh, the hero, our young hero, Miguel. Has set off to, uh, Uh, go, you know, hang out with a mariachi in the local, uh, in the, in the town square.

And she's not very happy about it. And, uh, in the original version, she confronts Miguel with a wooden spoon in her hand. Um, but we urged, uh, Lee to change that. And specifically, we said, you know, she's a Mexican grandmother. And you want to make her really Mexican, then she's going to pull off her slipper.

In Spanish, it's referred to as a chancla. She's going to take that chancla and she's going to like flip it over to him to kind of bonk him on the head to get him to, to, to mind. And, uh, and so they changed the scene and it, people really picked up on it. I would have to say that's one scene that the. That the media and the press, uh, highlight as, as an example of the, of the cultural authenticity of the movie.

It was, it's a funny scene and we had a lot of fun suggesting it and we were really glad that they put it in.

[00:14:21] Christy: Yes, it is a priceless scene. Well, as a testament to the authenticity of the film, hear the description from my associate producer for this episode, Nicole Lopez Conti, who's a Latina. This is what she says about how the film impacted her.

She said, Disney has told countless amazing and magical stories, but this, this feels different. It feels like someone looked into the Latino soul and made a movie of all that we Latinos are most proud of. Mama Coco, she said, the lines of her face, her worn skin and her beautiful whiskers. They are distinctly my grandmother's.

The sight of them wells up deep memories and my body is flooded with my love for her. The care that the artist put into creating these, it honors her. Wow. Um, what responses have you heard from people about how the film impacted them

[00:15:21] Marcela: personally? It's been very similar. I mean, we've been so gratified and, and overwhelmed by how deeply felt people.

Uh, you know, deeply felt and emotional and just so appreciative that the film, you know, not only presents a very celebratory, uh, a story about a Mexican family, but that It painted a portrait of the Mexican people that is just so, so loving and, um, and, you know, folks have been feeling a bit downtrodden, uh, these days for, uh, for lots of reasons and having to do with the political climate so

Portrayal of this beautiful, ancient woman who everyone loves so much. Um, everybody connected with it and, um, I mean, families, there were some families that saw the movie, you know, three, four, five times in the same weekend. And they took, you know, all of their family members. Uh, I, I saw photos of families, Latino families going to see this movie where there's like 15, 20 people in the photo, you know, and, and, uh, so it's, it's just been, um, It's been amazing.

It really has. And, and, uh, that, that description is really, uh, gosh, and there's been plenty of times that I've cried about this movie, watching it and thinking about it. And now I did it again. That was, uh, that was very special. Well,

[00:17:15] Christy: the film, it really resonated for me as well. And for our two kids, Shayla and Trevor, we chose a Spanish immersion program for their schooling.

And For nine years, our family was a part of a very special Latino community. And we've been part of Dia de los Muertos celebrations and potlucks, but pozole and tamales and baile folklórico, dance troupes. And so this film was, is like a coming home for me as well. And. What is so special about the film is that it depicted a culture that is so beautiful, but that doesn't always get recognized as such.

And, and that was really powerful.

[00:17:56] Marcela: It, you know, that's, we worked so hard to tell a story that we felt everyone could connect with. And, um, and, and I, It's that has been amazing to see that and to see the reaction of of people and to see that especially folks who are not Mexican or not Latino to, uh, really connect with the story's message and, and to see how.

Uh, you know, it's been so well received in China and, uh, in Europe and in other parts of, in other parts of the world. But I think the, the, the fact that it tells a story that's very universal, which is about the, the need for family to. Stay connected to one another.

[00:18:52] Christy: Now, my podcast is called leaders get real.

And I imagine that there were times along the way where you had to get real or you had to have some maybe tough conversations. And I think one of those you had shared with me was this music piece that, you know, it sounds like you have this. Phenomenal, you know, these, these Hollywood renowned composers, you know, all this like top notch, uh, talent.

And yet wasn't there a moment when you just, you had to say, wait, you, you're not

[00:19:27] Marcela: capturing it. I think early on in the movie, we, it wasn't so much that we said, you know, this particular song is not hitting it so much as. Uh, that what we expressed was that, um, part of the essence of Mexicanidad is, um, is, is the fact that, that music is in our blood.

Um, and, uh, you know, I, I often share a story that, uh, especially with mariachi music. Um, that is, you know, when you're born, they're there in the hospital room, you know, when you have your first birthday, they're there as you're cutting the cake, when you have your first communion, when you get married, they're in the church, you know, and when you die, you know, I recently attended a funeral of a family member and, you know, uh, uh, the mariachi were there.

And it's a very, um, specific style of music with a music. A very specific signature, um, in terms of its, its tempo and a lot of the themes of the music. And so what we really urged the filmmakers was that they, they really had to figure out a way to nail that.

[00:20:49] Christy: Now, what's a challenge you had to overcome in the project and how'd you work through

[00:20:55] Marcela: it? There was a moment early on, which was actually the moment that, that, uh, that caused, uh, Darla to pick up the phone and call me, which was, um, when, uh, the Disney's legal department, Um, uh, filed a trademark application for the term Day of the Dead, Dia de Muertos, and that understandably created a bit of a firestorm in the community, a big firestorm in the community, um, very quickly, uh, the protests went viral.

You know, within hours.

[00:21:31] Christy: Now, just, just some context on that, you know, them trademarking Dia de los Muertos is like, is like trademarking Christmas, right? Or Hanukkah, right?

[00:21:42] Marcela: Right, right. And it actually, to, to your previous question about the hard, you know, was there a hard conversation? That was probably, you know, if I had to, You know, think of hard conversations I might have had, and again, it wasn't so much that it was a hard conversation, it was a conversation about, you know, this was, you know, not well taken, um, and Here's why the community feels the way it does.

You know, the filmmakers, when they found out about it, because it was not the folks at Pixar that decided to do that, so they were just as surprised and dismayed as the community was. However, The depth of outrage and just the feeling from the community, I think, surprised everyone and so, uh, you know, that's when I received the phone call from, from Darla and invited to join the team and, and, um, part of my job then was to, to translate for them the, the, the hurt feelings and, and, and the outrage, um, you In a, in a way that they could appreciate it as, as, and I think once everyone understood or understood, uh, perhaps more deeply, um, this notion of culture is identity, heritage is identity.

And, you know, what does that mean? You know, what is the notion of identity? What it, it's what you feel in your soul about who you are and it's your desire for that to be respected. And, and so, you know, walking that journey of understanding the need for respect and its relationship to, um, culture. And, and country of origin was huge.

[00:23:47] Christy: And you told me, I mean, there's, there's a lot of interesting parts to this story because when that all broke out, there was a political cartoonist, right?

[00:23:56] Marcela: Who? Yes. Responded. Good friend of mine and colleague, um, his name is Lalo Alcaraz. He is a very well known and justly famous, uh, political. cartoonist and satirist.

He's, uh, his, uh, syndicated, uh, comic strip. It was the first, uh, syndicated comic strip, uh, by a Latino. Um, and he drew literally the day that it was, you know, exploded in social media that, that this had happened. He drew a An illustration, um, of, uh, of Mickey Mouse as, as, as Godzilla, um, uh, sort of rampaging through, uh, a Mexican town and, uh, the head, the, the headline over it was, was Muerto Mouse, uh, um, and, you know, coming to, coming to, to, to take your culture.

Um, and that illustration went viral very quickly. Um, so it was an instant demonstration to the folks at, at Disney and Pixar that, that the power dynamic in the business in terms of storytelling and who gets to control it and who gets to tell it and who, you know, who gets to own it. Um, has, has changed and social media and the internet is the reason why that's changed.

So, uh, one of the things that we did in terms of, um, accomplishing our goal of achieving cultural authenticity was we hired Lalo, you know, let's, he was our chief critic. I mean, very vocal and we reached out to him and we said, okay. You know, we hear you, uh, Darla Anderson and I felt that it would be a terrific idea to have him join us, and, and he did, and I think his contribution and that of my colleague, Octavio Solis, who's a very, very well known Latino playwright, you know, you can't put a price tag on, on their contributions.

[00:26:06] Christy: And that, wow, I mean, that could have been so polarizing. You can just imagine how that could have just spiraled into hatred and division with his, you know, visible response. And the fact that you hired him and you said, come join our team and, and. partner with us. That's a powerful testimony in and of itself of what a unifier this movie has been.

And your, you know, your role in that, that's really powerful.

[00:26:41] Marcela: Yeah. I think that's a good point that you make. I mean, speaking of how someone can occupy a position of leadership, um, you know, it, it can be, uh, you, you can walk that journey. Behind the scenes, uh, in a collaborative way, you know, where you're, you're, you're a trusted member of a team.

Um, and you're linking arms with everyone to, you know, to deliver much as, you know, uh, uh, terrific baseball team. It's not just one person, you know, you can't just win a game because you have a star pitcher. Uh, and so that was, we realized, you know, we need someone who can throw that fastball, um, and, and help us hit it out of the park as well.

Uh, I think Lalo and Octavio and everyone else that we brought on board and that they brought on board, um, you know, helped to create this, reinvent how to make a movie and um, deliver something that's evocative as Coco. Mm. Mm hmm.

[00:27:44] Christy: Wonderful. Well, we've talked about some various aspects, but what's something you are most proud of regarding the project?

[00:27:55] Marcela: What I'm most proud of is that, is the impact of the movie. We'd hoped that it would have an impact, but I am very proud of how people have reacted to it, and how it's, it has become part of the identity of the community. Especially now, when it's Really needed, you know, when people have felt so beleaguered and put upon and just this feeling of, you know, hearing from, you know, the top leaders of our country that, uh, this, this notion that our culture is so disrespected that you've got to.

wallowed away. Um, and, and what this movie did is it just busted that wide open. And as Lee has said is that it created a bridge, a very, very strong bridge of, um, Of, uh, a validation and pride.

[00:28:58] Christy: Well, you can indeed be proud of the impact of this film and what it's had on viewers and especially Latino viewers.

And the one whom I quoted earlier, uh, I'll share this as

[00:29:11] Marcela: well. You're going to make me cry again.

[00:29:13] Christy: Laughter. She said, Miguel sings this lyric in his final ballad, our love for each other will live on forever with every beat of my proud corazon, my proud heart. Coco shares our core values as Latinos with the world.

Our deep love and loyalty to our families is what makes us strong and resilient. This is what compels us to work around the clock, to do the jobs that others don't want, because we would do anything for each other, literally anything. This is why we would risk life and limb to give our kids a future, because this is how deeply we love each other.

This is what we have to offer the world. Cocoa has made me feel as if we are seen. And being seen leads to being appreciated, and being appreciated leads to being able to contribute even more in the

[00:30:13] Marcela: world. Wow. Whew. That is so intense and just fills me, you know, with such joy and pride that, that we all were able to create a moment.

Uh, and a legacy, uh, for our community. I think the reason that people are gravitated to, to the story of Coco is because by reinforcing that sense of love that you have for each other. And as, as well as for those that came before you. Um, it just, uh, is a retelling of Our American story as everyone feels it and wants to feel it.

And that validation, um, is it's, it's, it's so intangible and it's so priceless, um, that what it brings home to me is that eventually I believe. Our country is going to emerge from our present journey right now, stronger and more united than ever before. And I believe that the reason we're going to get there is through storytelling.

Is in the way that we share these stories together, um, that helps us to realize that we're all part of the human condition. And, um, and that's. That's just a fact that can't be, you know, you can't legislate that away. Um, and, uh, that was such a lovely sentiment. that she wrote. Um, thank you. Tell her thank you.

It's terrific.

[00:32:23] Christy: Absolutely. And I love this quote that's a favorite of yours, uh, from William Faulkner in his speech before the Nobel Prize Committee describing the artist's role. To seek, uh, and here's the quote, a life's work in the agony and sweat of the human spirit, not for the glory and least of all for profit, but to create out of the human spirit, something which did not exist before.

What do you, what do you think is the most distinctive thing, Marcella, that you've created with cocoa that did not exist before?

[00:33:12] Marcela: Strong, foundational, irrevocable sense of place for Mexicans, Mexican Americans, and Latinos in our civic culture. Um, that's not to say that our community has not felt Part of that. We're not part of the civic culture and we've been part of this the social justice movement in the civil rights movement You know for generations but I think that What this movie did was in in in in its own way in a very powerful way was to remind Help us remind ourselves And help the large community and the country, um, remember that we are part of the fabric of this society.

We always have been, and we provide some very bright colors in that fabric, um, and also very strong threads. And, um, you know, as Lincoln said, a country divided against itself can't stand, uh, can't survive. And I think what this movie did in, um, in a. In a way that was needed and hadn't been done in a really long time and certainly in the history of how Hollywood had never been done was to announce, uh, that this tapestry is on the table.

This tapestry is on our American table. Um, it has always invited us to come together. And join hands and, um, and as a result, people have done that and, and feel stronger for it. So I actually think, I don't know if this is overreach. I don't think it is. I think strong storytelling does this. When you read something like the Gettysburg Address, or you hear Winston Churchill in his famous speech about we shall, you know, stand on the beaches.

Um, a storytelling for the ages. Lifts up a people and helps them to continue to fight for what they believe in. And that's what this movie did.

[00:35:43] Christy: Wow. And as I hear you speak, um, you are a Mexican American who deeply cherishes. Your Mexican culture and I hear you quoting Lincoln and the Gettysburg Address and I see That you are an American who deeply cherishes your American culture and we can do both We can do both and I think that that's just powerful the example that you are of that And that so many Are of that, and yet we may sometimes see it as either, or,

[00:36:26] Marcela: well, my goodness.

Um, yeah, I, I, I, to be Mexican is to be American, to be American is to be Mexican. You know, todos somos humanos, americanos, mexicanos, and we're just part of this piece of dirt that we love so much. And. Um, there's just, there's no need to be fearful of difference, you know, uh, I love hearing Shenandoah as much as I love hearing mariachi music, and, um, I love, uh, reading Eleanor Roosevelt's letters as much as I love, uh, You know, reading, uh, the letters of, uh, of, uh, some of the women leaders, uh, in, in Mexico.

And I think that, um, you know, strength comes from understanding that, uh, you know, that, that, that to be unified is to be celebrating what, um, what we all have in common. And, um, I think we've just. We seem to have forgotten that, you know, if people keep saying, we've got to find our common ground. We've got our common ground.

We've always had our common ground. We've always been, um, you know, bonded together through, uh, through our, our, our common humanity, even when we had to, uh, As Lincoln might have said, tear asunder, uh, the, the, um, the, the shackles of slavery and the injustices that, uh, that our folks have, have, um, have experienced, especially with regard to Native Americans and people of color and what have you.

And so I think that, um. You know, one can be very proud of one's identity and one's culture, and at the same time feel a joy in understanding how you have a common bond with someone who, who may be of a different religion or may have a different color skin, and I think our country, it's certainly given me, you know, I don't know that I could have done, or I could have achieved, uh, you know, What I've been able to do if I wasn't American, if I wasn't living in this country, if I didn't have, um, the experience of both, um, you know, having a family with a country of origin in Mexico, but also, um, having a family that had it has its feet very firmly on, on, uh, on American soil as well.

So I just feel very lucky that, that, uh, um, That I, that I am living in the times that I'm living in. I, I just see it as, you know, I see it as our American cup is half full. I don't see it as half empty. And I see that we have such an opportunity to come together and heal. And, um, and that healing happens every day.

It's not anything that you That, uh, that's ever over, you know, that, that it's complete, you know, you, we're all experiencing renewal, um, every day, especially if we're trying to come together. And, um, lift each other up. Hmm.

[00:40:27] Christy: Ah, you said that so well. Todos somos humanos. We are all human. That's right. Ah, well, this has been so fabulous, Marcella.

You have so much to be proud of. This film is beautiful. And it's groundbreaking in so many ways. So thank you for taking the time to have conversation together

[00:40:52] Marcela: today. Oh, no. Muchisimas gracias a usted. Thank you very much. This was wonderful. I had a, such a lovely time, um, you know, sharing this amazing journey.

And it's, it's, uh, I'm so appreciative that. That you reached out and gave, uh, gave me the opportunity to, to do it, to do it again and to share it one more time.

[00:41:16] Christy: Hmm. And we are certainly hoping for a victory at the Oscars and I wish you and all of the Cocoa team the best.

[00:41:27] Marcela: Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. It's an honor to just be part of a film that was nominated and it'll be an exciting.

That'll be an exciting time. We'll keep our fingers crossed and see what happens.

[00:41:49] Christy: Thanks for tuning in today. Please spread the word by sharing this interview with friends or colleagues. To get an alert for new interviews, Subscribe at iTunes leaders Get real.com or your favorite podcast app and until next time, go forth and get real.